...and no one sees it, is it any less miraculous? Apply this to us. If one's individuality or uniqueness isn't known by another, doesn't attract fame, is it less real or meaningful?
Absolutely. One of the readings for Tang poets is almost always, "I'm so great why hasn't the Emperor given me a top job." You can definitely read Wang Wei as the miraculous flower, gloriously blossoming on his country estate, frustratingly unvisited by the officials of the royal court.
And for us today... well, good thing we have Substack, right?!
Really nice and I like how you mention the first three characters build on that single shape 木末芙. That's a genius level play on words in Chinese characters. Coincidently, it's now 木 (Thursday) in East Asia :)
Thank you for this. I am sure your translation is much superior.
To understand the poem and learn Chinese i took a try at it.
The tops of the trees with magnolias adorned
amidst the mountains send forth their buds.
The cold stream hut, alone, unmanned,
They opened, blossomed, and fell to their source
Floral trivia: magnolia trees symbolize stability, luck, female energy, and strength. white magnolia flowers represent purity, luck, and stability. Pink magnolia flowers stand for youth, joy, and innocence. And purple and green magnolias can symbolize sending someone well wishes, often for their health. yellow magnolias represent the sun, and purple magnolias represent royalty and religion. magnolia flowers also symbolize longevity, endurance, and perseverance.
CEdict translates it as cotton rose hibiscus. I presume indeed furonghua is magnolia flower.
The identification of flowers is always fraught. Firstly, the flora might have changed over the centuries. Second, the way flowers were grouped together over time might have changed; for example, Tang poets casually mix up lotus flowers and water lilies, treating them as if they're the same thing, which we don't do in modern English or modern Chinese. Third, poets were using plants for their symbolic meanings and references as much as for their botanical reality. And these references reached back a long way - the historical distance between the Songs of Chu and Wang Wei is about 1000 years, almost as long as the distance between us and Wang Wei. Whatever interpretive problems we're having, he was having the same trouble with his sources!
All of which is to say, there's space for many a slip here. But, I feel like the comparison drawn in this poem helps us towards some level of certainty: Wang is saying that these flowers are on a tree, and they look a lot like waterlilies. That has helped me feel reasonably comfortable with the traditional 芙蓉= magnolia reading, because you can really see what he means!
Colour words also change over time, and colour's symbolic meanings may be different in various cultures since many words for the various colors arose in recorded history. We can see this really clearly with Chinese in comparison with English notably crimson, scarlet, red as compared with hong, chi, zhu (still installing my pinyinzer).
Yeah, I still have no clue what those different reds are about. I'm better on the blues and greens. 青 is notoriously vague, but actually has a few fairly clear fixed references. The reds are quite a different story, because there are several different words, and I can't find any good references for exactly what shades they refer to, or the references and emotional weight that they carry.
A good argument can be made for 朱 zhu as scarlet since both imply wounding and consequent coloration, whether of a tree stump or a persons head (and indeed we see this zhu appearing in character involving beheading)
红 Hong of course is the honourable color and so is scarlet in English. I am unsure whether crimson carries the sense of honour in English and-or American English. I am certain scarlet in British English is honourable.
Chi is fire engine red since it is the red associated with flames 赤
If you wish only the color meaning it is fairly literal
朱 is the red of a tree stump, the top part of the stump of a fresh cut tree is the color this represents
赤 is the red of flames burning in a raging forest fire
红 is the color of red imparted by staining, thus bloodstains but also the dying of clothing colors thus likely from crushed berries.
It depends on what idea one wishes to convey.
Though I am unsure of crimson in English which I would call dark red to avoid false associations.
Characters like their words began as literal objects taking on metaphorical and extended meanings as society grew more complex, these usually being indicated later with added determinants and-or combining characters (compound, i.e. composite characters). By studying the character's etymology we obtain a true understanding of it and can accurately translate it given adequate context.
there is so much fauxtymology out there I advise being sceptical.
Hanziyuan.net has a free source for studying oracle bones.
Also I found "chinese code" android app useful.
Point is: it really was all literal pictures of actual objects which evolved using six methods, which are mutually reinforcing and not exclusive. Hanzi combine image, idea, and sound. By decomposing them we gain an understanding of East Asian culture and language, and the deeper we study the better our understanding.
Note though e.g. outlier dictionary claims hanziyuan.net has errors. His dictionary is likely even better than hanzi shushus.
...and no one sees it, is it any less miraculous? Apply this to us. If one's individuality or uniqueness isn't known by another, doesn't attract fame, is it less real or meaningful?
Absolutely. One of the readings for Tang poets is almost always, "I'm so great why hasn't the Emperor given me a top job." You can definitely read Wang Wei as the miraculous flower, gloriously blossoming on his country estate, frustratingly unvisited by the officials of the royal court.
And for us today... well, good thing we have Substack, right?!
Really nice and I like how you mention the first three characters build on that single shape 木末芙. That's a genius level play on words in Chinese characters. Coincidently, it's now 木 (Thursday) in East Asia :)
Huh, I didn't know that association with the elements and the days of the week. Interesting!
Thank you for this. I am sure your translation is much superior.
To understand the poem and learn Chinese i took a try at it.
The tops of the trees with magnolias adorned
amidst the mountains send forth their buds.
The cold stream hut, alone, unmanned,
They opened, blossomed, and fell to their source
Floral trivia: magnolia trees symbolize stability, luck, female energy, and strength. white magnolia flowers represent purity, luck, and stability. Pink magnolia flowers stand for youth, joy, and innocence. And purple and green magnolias can symbolize sending someone well wishes, often for their health. yellow magnolias represent the sun, and purple magnolias represent royalty and religion. magnolia flowers also symbolize longevity, endurance, and perseverance.
CEdict translates it as cotton rose hibiscus. I presume indeed furonghua is magnolia flower.
Yeah, you've got the sense there.
The identification of flowers is always fraught. Firstly, the flora might have changed over the centuries. Second, the way flowers were grouped together over time might have changed; for example, Tang poets casually mix up lotus flowers and water lilies, treating them as if they're the same thing, which we don't do in modern English or modern Chinese. Third, poets were using plants for their symbolic meanings and references as much as for their botanical reality. And these references reached back a long way - the historical distance between the Songs of Chu and Wang Wei is about 1000 years, almost as long as the distance between us and Wang Wei. Whatever interpretive problems we're having, he was having the same trouble with his sources!
All of which is to say, there's space for many a slip here. But, I feel like the comparison drawn in this poem helps us towards some level of certainty: Wang is saying that these flowers are on a tree, and they look a lot like waterlilies. That has helped me feel reasonably comfortable with the traditional 芙蓉= magnolia reading, because you can really see what he means!
Colour words also change over time, and colour's symbolic meanings may be different in various cultures since many words for the various colors arose in recorded history. We can see this really clearly with Chinese in comparison with English notably crimson, scarlet, red as compared with hong, chi, zhu (still installing my pinyinzer).
Yeah, I still have no clue what those different reds are about. I'm better on the blues and greens. 青 is notoriously vague, but actually has a few fairly clear fixed references. The reds are quite a different story, because there are several different words, and I can't find any good references for exactly what shades they refer to, or the references and emotional weight that they carry.
A good argument can be made for 朱 zhu as scarlet since both imply wounding and consequent coloration, whether of a tree stump or a persons head (and indeed we see this zhu appearing in character involving beheading)
红 Hong of course is the honourable color and so is scarlet in English. I am unsure whether crimson carries the sense of honour in English and-or American English. I am certain scarlet in British English is honourable.
Chi is fire engine red since it is the red associated with flames 赤
If you wish only the color meaning it is fairly literal
朱 is the red of a tree stump, the top part of the stump of a fresh cut tree is the color this represents
赤 is the red of flames burning in a raging forest fire
红 is the color of red imparted by staining, thus bloodstains but also the dying of clothing colors thus likely from crushed berries.
It depends on what idea one wishes to convey.
Though I am unsure of crimson in English which I would call dark red to avoid false associations.
Characters like their words began as literal objects taking on metaphorical and extended meanings as society grew more complex, these usually being indicated later with added determinants and-or combining characters (compound, i.e. composite characters). By studying the character's etymology we obtain a true understanding of it and can accurately translate it given adequate context.
Huh, I didn't know those origins! That's really useful, thank you.
there is so much fauxtymology out there I advise being sceptical.
Hanziyuan.net has a free source for studying oracle bones.
Also I found "chinese code" android app useful.
Point is: it really was all literal pictures of actual objects which evolved using six methods, which are mutually reinforcing and not exclusive. Hanzi combine image, idea, and sound. By decomposing them we gain an understanding of East Asian culture and language, and the deeper we study the better our understanding.
Note though e.g. outlier dictionary claims hanziyuan.net has errors. His dictionary is likely even better than hanzi shushus.
I swear water lillies grow on top of trees right next to the spaghetti!
There is a wistfulness to this a sadness that speaks to me very directly as would a painting.